Stop right there.
President Obama may be a poor bowler, but even he must know there's a line you do not cross. Literally -- if you cross the foul line at the end of the approach area, no matter how many pins you knock down, the roll is void, and you have to mark a "0" as your score. These are the rules, as anyone who has seen The Big Lebowski well knows.
We have not yet seen Vice President Joe Biden on the lanes, but the AP reports today that five Senate Democrats will do their best to draw a line for him not to cross during his deficit reduction negotiations with Republicans. That line is called Medicare:
Five Democratic senators are calling on Vice President Joe Biden to reaffirm his commitment to leaving Medicare unchanged during budget and deficit negotiations.
Sens. Claire McCaskill, of Missouri, Jon Tester, of Montana, Sherrod Brown, of Ohio, Ben Cardin of Maryland and Bill Nelson of Florida express their concerns in a letter sent Monday to Biden.
Just as interesting, from that same AP article?
All five senators, from states with significant elderly populations, are up for reelection in 2012.
Bingo. Republicans remain steadfast about the Paul Ryan's kill-Medicare "Vouchercare" budget, insisting that it be on the table for deficit reduction talks despite its political toxicity. So why is it important that five Democratic Senators, all up for reelection and considered moderates, draw this line now? Greg Sargent:
It signals that they have decided that the Ryan plan is so toxic that they can oppose it without worrying about negative consequences for their reelection campaigns. This “shows that there is no daylight to try and pick off moderate Dem support on this issue,” as Eddie Vale of ProtectYourCare puts it.
If Vice President Biden crosses this line and includes elements of Congressman Ryan's budget in any deficit reduction plan, should liberals call foul and mark it zero? The thread is open.
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Don't call it "vouchercare," which makes it sound like a reasonable alternative to Medicare that will do an equivalent job of taking care of the needs of vulnerable elderly citizens. It isn't, and it won't. The bill is a Kill Medicare bill, because the substance and promise of Medicare--the promise that was the basis for millions of us to pay into the system all our working lives--would be completely changed under Ryan's plan. It kills Medicare. Period.
I agree completely. Just the term "vouchercare" churns my stomach in a bad way as an term that seems to try to legitimize an inherently illegitimate program.
All true. But my question is what does that sign say on the back wall in the picture?
I agree. Call it Medikill.
Married Couples Bowling League. That's me keeping score.
I agree. Vouchers are good in many cases, and are generally though of in a positive light, so the name is not appropriate in this unique application.
When it comes to subsidizing medical insurance for the least insurable portion of the population, month-to-month vouchers for seniors are a troubling concept. This insurance needs to be planned and paid for over a working lifetime, not monthly during retirement, and since insurance companies cannot be guaranteed solvent for a lifetime, nor relied upon when health declines and expenses climb for an indivicual, the government is the most reliable, most impartial guarantor. How tough would it be for an insurance company to "trick" a senior with medical issues to fill out the wrong form and lose their private insurance entirely. The concept of lifelong Medicare starts soothing the policy holder long before retirement is on the horizon. That is tax money well spent.
I feel that the Ryan plan acknowledges the need to increase Medicare paycheck witholding (increased taxes), so that able-bodied working people pay into it, not retirees that have paid too little thoughout their working years. To keep Medicare statistically solvent for a liftime, I can't see many working-class folk complaining about an increase. I can see politicians complaining, but the noisiest of these folk treat their government paychecks like secondary income, apparently knowing a corporation or two that covers their primary income.
Vouchers are a divide and conquer plan to keep anyone from getting the financial benefit of a group discount. Individuals can have their rates hiked quietly, but if you raise rates for a group, there's a clamor. Oversight is reduced, and the power of the government to bargain goes away.
The insurance companies must LOVE this idea.
Deleted duplicate comment. "BUBBLEGUM"??
I wouldn't be surprised if the administration caves on this. They've caved on pretty much everything else.
I don't think we can call it "caving" any more. They're not on our side.
Here's how things are going to go (unfortunately):
1. The Repubs will continue to threaten to not raise the debt ceiling.
2. Obama will preach the importance of "bipartisanship" (or, caving in, as the rest of us call it).
3. Repubs will not move an inch, right up to the last moment.
4. Obama, claiming that he and the Dems will be the "adults in the room," will set the stage to give the Repubs pretty much whatever they want.
5. Obama, the poor poker player he is, refuses to call the Republicans' bluff, and not only gives in on Medicare--thus taking Repubs off the hook for the Ryan Plan--but also throws in a few extra concessions just to prove that he's the "adult in the room" who can "compromise" "for the good of the country."
6. The Republicans once again hold joyous victory celebrations over having snookered Obama and the Dems.
mpguy: Dude, you're going to have to lay off the Ouija board. Don't you know you can get demon possessed using those things?
I only say that because, sadly... I think you're seeing the future.
Remember all the cuts the repug want and they thought they have it was just a trick and they didn't get cut's, don't cut Obama short.
John Tester makes me glad I voted for him(other than the wolf thing) and Biden should heed the advice of these Senators. No cuts to medicare at all it is time we stood up and it is time Biden came out against the GOP you cannot negotiate wth these terrorists anymore.
The Repugnicans are a shrewd bunch. If they can get the Dem's to follow their lead once again and adopt terms such as "Vouchercare" (the anti-type of "Obamacare") they will have succeeded in making the distinction between the two as clear as mud.
I have to disagree. Republican use of language has been an extremely effective tool against the Democrats. "Death Panels" is a prime example.
Democrats need to use language and not rely on a Pollyanna viewpoint that telling the truth will be enough to get the job done. It won't. You have to present your side effectively.
The problem with"VoucherCare" is that it is too neutral. At least use "CouponCare".
Nah, we need to get rid of the 'care' part period, since it in no way provides that for seniors. We could use MedicalCoupons, although I'm not thrilled with that either. Kill Medicare is still the best, considering that's exactly what it does.
Private insurance is just plain too darned expensive, and getting more so everyday. Copays and deductibles that must be met before the insurance even kicks in makes it even worse, and those also go up dramatically every year.
The basic problem is that there's not enough emphasis on the fact that Medicare isn't broke yet! Lowering the unemployment rate would fix the problem before the program goes broke. Why don't we see some jobs bills? Where are the jobs?
Because people don't realize that economic models, when predicting the future income state of programs like Medicare and Social Security, have to assume that there are certain stagnates. All of the models currently predicting SS and Medicare will go bankrupt do so relying on the assumption that unemployment will never drop below 6%. Those that assume SS will go bankrupt by 2020 do so by assuming unemployment won't drop below 8%. W/o clearly explaining this is the stagnate factor for each model, people cannot understand what it is they are reading (FTR this isn't a failure on behalf of the people who do said studies, as they openly admit and explain as much, it is a failure on behalf of those who report on such studies). If you change the unemployment (so lower it) then suddenly there's plenty of money. If you change the interest rates, inflation, or any other adjustments to the basic income-to-cost ratio, you suddenly change when Medicare and SS go bankrupt. If you change the tax rates you change the future of Medicare and SS. If you remove the SS/Medicare cap you suddenly change the future of these programs. It's an important point that no one seems to want to talk about for some reason. I have tried to point out before that many, many of the economic policies being presented by both the left and the right (but as of late more by the right) rely on the belief that things will not change. It's a reactionary way of viewing politics. Instead of looking at where we'll be 10 years down the road and making policy in accordance w/ where we'd like to be, we instead rely on momentary information to make momentary decisions. We do the same regarding the national debt and the national deficit. We don't consider anything else other than what it is this very second and we refuse to acknowledge that the next second may be any different. I fundamentally believe this is the pinnacle of our legislative problems.
Of course, Mickey, as I'm sure you know perfectly well (but I'm spelling it out because it needs to be), the reason we don't talk properly about how the social safety-net systems can be preserved and strengthened is that we allow the Republicans to frame the debate.
But, here's the strange thing: I've recently discovered that my very right-wing mother has suddenly woken up to some of the things the right is doing or trying to do re: Medicare, unions and public schools. She had been safely distracted from the real issues by culture-war issues until the Ryan plan was voted on. The Republicans are slitting their own throats even with their most hard-core supporters, so the Dems had better not do anything to take the knife out of their hands.
There is only one way that Medicare should be considered as part of a deficit-reduction plan: If the only "cuts" to Medicare are allowing the program to negotiate with drug companies over prices, as well as allowing re-importation. That would be acceptable as it would lower the costs of the program without reducing the service provided.
If the White House and the National Dems they deserve to lose in the coming election. They Republicans are on the ropes.
Unfortunately the non-leadership Democrats need to keep pressure applied to the leadership so they don't screw things up again.
BTW - I don't think VoucherCare is a strong enough term. I like Paul Krugman as a commentator but as a tactical linguist he has no clue.
Bare minimum it should be called "CouponCare". In another post I was against "the Kill Medicare bill". I suppose that would do but it seems awkward. No... I vote for "CouponCare".
I continue to be floored that government programs that were too toxic for Bush to consider cutting are now considered on the table with Obama in the White House. If Tea Party activists shout the words "socialist" and "liberal" at Obama, that doesn't change the fact that he's governing as the furthest right-wing President since Hoover.
The Republican party deserves to have their faces rubbed in the mess Paul Ryan created. Paul Ryan deserves to eat it.
It should be called exactly what it is "Ryan's 2012 Coupon/Voucher Care Program".
This article has already given the bill its perfect name
ToxiCare
1. Democrats have to say to Republicans that there will be no cuts to Medicare. This is firm. Don't give up your power.
2. Problems to the rising deficit is due to rising health care costs not just for seniors but for everyone in the country.
3. Give Medicare the power to negotiate lower drug prices and overall medical prices with providers.
4. Allow Medicare to pay doctors not for fees for service which is the bankrupting everybody now but for results encouraging accountable care organizations.
5. This is what the Democrats should be saying.
"Health Coupons"
"Privatization of Medicare"
"Medicare Rations."
"Health Industrial Complex"
"Senior-based Deficit Reduction"
"Dismantle Medicare and Medicaid under the pretense of Deficit Reduction while simultaneously maintaining Tax Cuts for people who make over 250,000 and maintaining corporate tax loopholes that allow some companies to get away with paying nothing in taxes at all, and attacking the progressive caucus budget which is the only plan that actually solves the problem in the first place.....care"
I like the reference to Lebowski. Like the famous rug, Medicare is what really ties us Democrats together. And Ryan is obviously not a golfer.
And the republicans are peeing on our rug, man!
Could it be that by destroying medicare in its present form, what Repubs are really trying to do is dismantle the mechanism that could eventually operate as "Single Payer Care"? They have been so nonconfrontational about repealing the new healthcare legislation of late.
Absolutely. Republicans realize that we're headed toward single payer. We would be there already if the Dems had anything resembling a spine.
That's why Republicans have stepped up their efforts to eliminate that possibility.
What has stopped the insurance companies from offering better insurance plans for everyone? Nothing. This is the best and simplest argument that Dems can make against the "free market solution" that Republicans claim will bring down costs. The insurance companies have had decades to fix health care insurance and they have done nothing but shore up their profits.
A shift of the elderly from Medicare to private insurance will cause dramatic increases of premiums, copays, etc., for older people. Private insurance is too expensive for people not on Medicare even if their employer pays a portion of the premiums. Dems need to be united on the Medicare and SS issues and oppose any structural changes. If Obama gives in on either issue, the Senate and House Dems are not going to go along with the president's proposals. Obama will lose the 2012 election and drag down Dems.
Med Stamps or Ration Vouchers
I like both of those!
I like Med Stamps. How about RationCare?
Wat! Now you guys want not only not to expand it, but to destroy that limited and insufficient program? What ever happened to power to the people, man... Why don't you have Medicare for all already? It's unthinkable the most prosperous country in the world by far gets beaten by Cuba in infant mortality rate and life expectancy.
There is something very wrong about this. I think it is the notion of health as a commodity, a luxury, instead of something every citizen should be entitled to due to simply being a citizen in a civilized country.
And now even the democrats are thinking about ending Medicare? This is crazy. Have they forgotten who put them in office? Who elected them, who they're supposed to represent and work for?
I like what Andy Borowitz calls them: "Kevouchers" after Jack Kevorkian:
Let's be honest: Medicare has been cut and cut and cut ever since it got started. Seniors have to buy supplemental insurance to go with it. The exceptions to this is that drugs have been covered and now under Obamacare they are covered even better, yeah! Let's make sure that Obamacare is a positive word. Under Ryan's plan, you aren't guaranteed card, but rather a coupon or voucher, so call it like it is: Poor Care.
Mr. Smith I believe you were trying to say "...no matter the/what pins you knock down..."
It has been corrected. Thanks for the heads-up.
The best Medicare reform is to set premiums based on income which allows most everyone to buy the insurance at a cost they can afford.
I believe the tax rates already do that. People who made more money during their careers have paid more in Medicare taxes.
The tax rates set contributions to the program. But they do not set the premiums so everyone, regardless of income, gets the same premiums for Medicare. My gripe about the program is that it does not cover a lot of things that people need like hearing aids and non-cosmetic dental work. The hearing aids are extremely expensive and dental work can cost a small fortune. This is in addition to the copays and deductibles with Medicare which should also be based on income. If you are on SS and have no other retirement income, the premiums are not expensive but the deductibles are high if you are hospitalized. Medical bills constitute a significant portion of personal bankruptcies and many of these are not people on Medicare.
TPMDC
Debt Ceiling
Eric Cantor: OK, Maybe The Debt Ceiling Deadline Is For Real
Benjy Sarlin | June 6, 2011, 11:49AM
Remember Death Panels? Maybe that's what we should call Paul Ryan's budget. When Republicans kill Medicare and seniors do not have access to affordable health care, Grandmas and Grandpas will DIE from conditions that would have been treatable, if only they could afford it. Republicans are the Death Panels.
If the Ryan voucher program became law, how many months or years would it take Republicans to dillute it to the next stage, retroactively removing "grandfathered" recipients from full medicare and forcing them onto the voucher program? I sense a Republican end-game to eventually eliminate vouchers completely, in favor of purely commercial medical insurance policies, since the voucher plan seems a distinctly half-way measure between a public health plan and a commercial health plan.
Medicare is not a luxury medical plan. It is now barely a baseline subsistence plan. Anything less is inadequate. I can think of no rational wage earners who would balk at paying a little more each paycheck to keep their retired years healthy if financial windfall does not allow an otherwise comfy retirement.
I believe government really does a lot of things very well, despite what some would have me think. The U.S. Government once did a great job empowering a middle class and providing reason for optimism at lower wage levels. Presently, the wealthy seem to be reaping all the rewards at the expense of middle and lower wage earners. With the masses unable to spend, the wealthy have no reason to gear up manufacturing, but instead are smart to hoard their record incomes. The U.S is presently in a stalemate.
Ryan's plan should be renamed "LackOfCare." There's nothing "caring" about it.
The people my mother's age who remember WWII know what those things are, and they aren't vouchers -- they're rationing coupons.