The Senate has voted to end the military's ban on openly gay troops, putting the final Congressional approval on an end to the disastrous Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy. Since Congress passed the compromise bill 17 years ago, DADT has cost the nation an estimated $1.3 billion dollars and ended the careers of 13,000 service members who wanted to help their nation.
And finally, today, in passing a standalone bill for repeal by a vote of 65-31 (roll call here), the Senate has ended Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Notably, Republican Senators Richard Burr of North Carolina and John Ensign of Nevada switched their votes from no on cloture earlier to yes for final passage. The measures were advanced primarily in the House by Rep. Patrick Murphy (D-Pennsylvania) and in the Senate by Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine). Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Connecticut) should get an honorary pound cake or something for totally coming through. And as Rachel Maddow just said on MSNBC, this is the president's victory.
Thanks to Chris-os for the picture idea for this post, and to Simply Agrestic for picking up this quote from a 2009 Maddow speech. She's talking about discriminatory treatment of prisoners with HIV/AIDS, but it works here, too:
"If something is really, honestly indefensible, it can be defeated. The people perpetrating that indefensible thing will want you to think that what they are doing is inevitable. They will want you to think that it cannot possibly be changed or fixed. That it is the way it has to be, that that is the way it's gonna be, they will want you to think those things. And it's not true. An indefensible practice or policy is, in America, vulnerable."
- Rachel Maddow
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65-31 lol. It died even by more than the cloture vote. So sick. It will be about a year before the policy is fully repealed. The question I now have is will all of our discharged veterans be able to rejoin?
I think there will be more add ons (gays who want to join or re-join) than leavers (straights who quit due to repeal). I know my partner would definietly go back in if she weren't so ancient. LOL!!
I am going to join as soon as I can get in contact with a recruiter. If it's going to take a year though for the repeal to take full effect then I will probably just ask the recruiter for the training manual and start prepping. I just want to know what the details are now.
Marry Your Girl First!!! Don't sign a thing until she is recognized as your immediate family!
You and WBEng =P I can't get married to her until she finishes school. Shes' on the other side of the country right now and will be till she's done with her doctorates. The only way we could get married is if we moved to MA or Iowa or WA state. Which, I don't particularly dislike any of those states and WA wouldn't be more than a 10 minute drive away, but all of that ignores the logistical problem. I dunno. Maybe I should still stick with my "it won't pass" plan and finish school first?
Idaho_Spud, I applaud your partner (and other gay women and men) for serving in the environment of discrimination BEFORE it was repealed. THAT's true patriotism!
The military wouldn't recognize same-sex marriages in states where it's legal due to language in the federal Defense of Marriage Act. Sorry... there's still road ahead.
Hasn't DOMA been ruled unconstitutional in a federal court somewhere and now waiting for appeal? Or did I dream a happy dream about that....
@Jak- yes, but the Obama administration appealed that decision and an injunction was issued. Until DOMA is taken up by a higher court it will stay in affect. Essentially this ruling has to go to the Supreme Court before it will be upheld and put into place.
That's the thing, isn't it? DADT is dead (well, on it's way to being dead) but that's just one step in the march toward equal rights for gay Americans. DOMA needs to go. DADT and DOMA are the marquee items but there are also the other items on the program like workplace discrimination.
Of course, Mickey, Congress theoretically could repeal DOMA as well, but that seems like a much bigger fight particularly as it has far less support among even Democrats (I'm looking at you, Mr President). The courts are probably the best route, and it's possible that even the Robert's Court will be able to recognize the clear unconstitutionality of a law that 'allows' states to disregard the full faith and credit clause. I have no faith in the Robert's Court but I also had little confidence that the Senate would actually manage to repeal DADT this century, so I would welcome another 'disappointment' of that sort.
Woo! Hoo!!! Seriously! (Boy, I do live in a cave not seeing this till now...or was that called avoidance, in case...)
School. Love you baby girl - it's a great day. Seriously, the best of all possible great in what's a great day :)))
Smiles- was wondering if you'd log on or not WB. Love ya =)
I see that the Log Cabin Republicans released a statement on this which says, in part:
Most of that sentence is unobjectionable...but 'strong Republican support'? Since when is the support of only six Republican senators (plus the small number in the House, which I can't recall off the top of my head and can't be arsed to look up) amount to strong support? Most Republican members of Congress were and remain opposed to repeal. Nothing the LCR can say changes that.
Considering the most recent votes on stuff that they've had in Congress, 6 Republicans is a very strong support. That's 6 people who broke away from their parties "No!" agenda and voted for a great thing for our country. They deserve credit for being very strong.
You forgot CT, Mouser! Marriage is not only legal but gay and lesbian married couples have become a ho-hum.
I am a JP, I'll perform the ceremony gratis-how about on the beach?
Yes you are right, and I forgot Vermont. I am sorry I didn't mean to leave out your hometown. Props =)
Maybe those individuals, but not the GOP as a whole which is the impression the LCR's statement is intended to give. The LCR would have been more honest if they had singled out those six senators and at least implicitly criticized their party which made the repeal process far more difficult than it needed to be.
Still, the country is slightly more just now than it was before the vote to repeal, which is good and appropriate to the time of year.
MM- have I told you I love you lately? I don't want to do so if it offends you but MM=#awesome to me ;-) You and Laura can split the champagne!
All I have to say is.. all I wanted to do is serve my country and protect those, like my mother, who could not do so. My sexuality came into play when it should have Never been a point in how I performed my duties. My record was exemplary but, it meant nothing. Now, hopefully I will be able to regain my pride, my integrity,... my life.
I hope so too Knowles...I want to join up...I wasn't meaning to diminish your service or the service of anyone else. I have many friends in the military; one of my best friends is in the Army Corps. She tells me- finish college (as do the others). I can only speak for what I've been told and to what my personal intentions are. Follow your heart. Just know, regardless, I support you and stand beside you.
Yeah, something for Joe... Thumbs up for passage ^....
I know we don't win every battle...but the President held firm and got this done. Congrats to everyone who this effects directly, but also to the American People as a whole. As I've said here before, let's stand together. Our President is making change...not always everything we'd hope for...not always as fast as we'd like...but change nonetheless! Hopefully we will also see START ratified and 9/11 Responders passed in the coming days.
Happy Holidays
If the 9/11 Responders Bill isn't passed soon, I'm afraid Jon Stewart's head may explode.
A day of great anticipation finally arrives! Congratulations to those who worked to repeal this injustice, to those this injustice was used against (may the passion of service still drive them to great things), and to those who desire to enlist and serve.
And, to those many, who endured sacrifices in their personal life that we civilians take for granted, who continued to believe in their oath and duty even in an environment of conditional silence - honor to you. I for one feel better knowing you are at guard. If I may, I raise my glass to you tonight.
------------------------------
It is somewhat satisfying some of our legislators believe in their commitment, and are willing to fight for their country as well. So much to do still...and the clock is ticking.
I can be a realist, but I do hope others who have committed themselves to service will not be forgotten. First responders know what risks they sign up for, and know a percentage of them will end up giving all (their lives); and yet the count, and the costs keep rising......
May the holidays find all well and offer blessings.
I'm still dubious about the amount of credit the president deserves on this. If he wanted to amp up his support he could have done it by executive order...whether or not it would have been procedurally correct. Nobdy would have doubted the sincerity of his support. The same goes for DOMA, which is still languishing as an issue.
Follow the developments and tell me if I'm wrong...as the Dept of Defense and hence the federal govt, recognize gay and lesbian partners as spouses for the purpose of benefits (as well they should,) traction will be gained against DOMA.
As for the arguments that Repeal is going to benefit Republicans by the gay vote in '12...its not going to play nearly as well when every Republican candidate campaigns on reversing the repeal.
I agree with you about the dubious amount of credit that Obama deserves on this. I think the momentum was swinging in favor of getting rid of DADT due to the court decisions. I know very few politicians who don't want to be part of a winning team.
I believe that after the courts started to rule on the unconstitutionality of DADT, that it was really a giant snowball rolling downhill. The military, sensing the inevitability of the situation, wanted it repealed through congress so that they would have time for an orderly implementation. The backslapping and cheering among political types yesterday ... well that's just what politicians do, Obama included.
No, he couldn't. DADT was a law enacted by Congress. A President cannot overturn laws by executive order. The racial segregation of the military had not been established by law only by military policy, which is why Truman was able to issue an order to integrate the military. But Presidents are supposed to obey the law, too, no matter how the Bush Administration behaved.
On the subject of how much credit Obama deserves, I think that's nearly impossible to determine. Although Obama sometimes talks about fighting, whatever fighting he actually does seems to be held out of sight of the public. I'm not sure how much this administration understands that showing in public that you are fighting for something is important. It's not just symbolic. It can set the terms of debate and create additional pressure. Obama may fight behind closed doors but we'd never know it by the public face of the administration.
now that's what I call a christmas present!
Amen.
I thought I didn't want anything for Christmas... I was wrong... I really, really wanted this!
Yessssssssssssssssssssssss!! Can't say it's right on time. Maybe...it's about doggone time!! Just the same, we have something to be thankful for and can celebrate.
More importantly, if they rejoin, what happens to their military records? Can they get this blemish removed?
Yes, it's in the report. They can rejoin, and DADT-separation won't effect their record. They won't however get any credit for the time out of the service.
Unless my memory is fooling me (always possible), I think discharges under DADT are 'honorable' (there's bitter irony in that word somewhere).
Please don't forget the hard work done by my senator, Kirsten Gillibrand, the junior senator from New York.
Yes indeed! My senator too, and a damn good one!
Me too!! I'm really proud of Sen. Reid. His "Mormon roots" kinda frown on homosexuality; but he stood up for all his constituents.
I was reminded of this the other day- I keep it as a power point in the classroom so kids understand where they are in the greater scheme of things...
http://users.gazinter.net/melan/Warn/Warnenu.htm
Fun link, Melody
I'm in NY and couldn't be more proud of our wonderful senators, Gillibrand especially. She's such a fighter and a true ally for civil rights. She's a person I will proudly vote for time and again.
While we're talking about senators, I think it's worthwhile to bring up the soon-to-be senior Senator from Connecticut, Joe Lieberman. As a CT resident myself, I've had plenty of frustrations with him over the past few years, but he really took the initiative in DADT repeal, and publicly pressured Sen. McCain to change his mind on the matter.
He deserves an enormous amount of credit, and I think that as an Independent, his support enabled other non-Democrats to realize that repealing DADT did not have to be a partisan battle.
Nutmeg, I live in CT, too-reluctantly, I give him credit-but I still cannot swallow the campaigning with McCain and sister Sarah 2 yrs. ago.
And, remember, he was instrumental in ruining the health care bill. (While his wife, Hadassah works for a health care lobby group-ugh).
4 yrs ago, I was a delegate for him-I still cannot get over the fact that he dissed all the CT dems who supported him over the years.
Thank you to the Senate and President Obama- We will no longer be asking Americans to lie about their lives, who they are, and their loved ones to fight for our freedom and rights!
Can't wait for the first All Gay squad of the military to tickle and fawn cuteness over the enemy to death. Oh wait! That's what the Navy is for!
Ultimate Al Qaeda defeat... all gay squad captures Bin Laden and ends war!
ya because those FA-18/Hornets and Growlers are such pansy toys
You take down the validity of your own comment by the absurd, homophobic way you posed your opinion.....really, if that is the best you could come up with to support your argument against the repeal, why bother? And further more, you know what? Your opinion doesn't count. It's a done deal. get over it homophobe!
hahaha yes! Go Army, Beat Navy! (next year)
This isn't football ;-)
@Finch: I realize my entering this fray is risky, but I do believe Horvath's comment was a joke, and not one I find offensive (esp. after taking a quick glance at his other recent comments). BTW, I'm an Out Gay man, with a former lover who had a long career in the Navy, and Horvath's comment sounds like something my ex would've said (sans the "fawn cuteness over" phrase - not his style).
That is, am I to understand you really thought the remarks were homophobic?!? I don't know, I'm not Horvath, but I'm more than willing to enjoy laughing with people over how the (complex) traditions of Gay folks (men, in this instance) in the Navy might evolve now. Not every joke at Gay folks' expense -- nor every criticism, nor even every slight -- is necessarily homophobic.
One less excuse for bigotry in the US!! FINALLY!!! Congratulations to all the LGBT servicemen and women, I've been proud to serve with you all this time, and now you can be just as proud. I can't express how happy this makes me :)
speaking as a vet, mission accomplished !
Yep - and, in this case, it actually means what it should ;-)
I'm 60yo, and I've been gay for 18 months... this is a proud day! Reid didn't blink this time. Thank GAWD I wonder if my old Army uniform will fit, and I wonder if they'll take me back? Oh... wait, I was a cook last time, that MOS isn't in the Army anymore? Hmmm? Great Day
Congratulations, Rob! You'll be receiving your packet in the mail in 6-8 weeks and a number to call to have your Pink Pages listing published AND a complimentary rainbow bumper sticker. The Pink Panthers will be around to help you pitch your old wardrobe and take you out for dinner after your shopping excursion :-)
It always makes me smile to hear about someone pitching old demons. Better late than never. Welcome aboard!
heh heh heh, now that's funny.
Proud to be a Mainer today and have both of my Republican Senators behind this bill. Once again, Snowe and Collins vote with their minds and not with their wallets and their personal prejudices.
The mos was 94-b20
Great news! Thanks to all those who worked towards the repeal. Here is to those kicked out for being gay, or perceived to be gay. And to all of us who served in silence, thank you!
For the first time, in a long time, I'm pleased with something congress has done.Â
It's about time this happened.Â
It is about time. It has been a long time coming, but I am proud that this has been accomplished now.
I'm an Army Captain, and my boyfriend and I are breaking out the Champagne! Thanks for speaking out for those of us who can't couldn't!!!
Cheers!!
Cheers indeed!
Are partners recognized as spouses regardless of the recognition of gay marriage? Its not a small question. If it isn't already, it must be the next big fight...the entitlement of gay and lesbian spouse benefits. Its the next step in the federal reognition of gay marriage. Let's see them TRY to walk this back!
Today is definitely a day for celebration. Thank you for your continued service and congratulations. Very soon, your life will no longer be lived in secrecy. Tears of Joy for you and your boyfriend and all who so richly deserved the passage of this bill.
Let Freedom Ring!
It may have taken them 2 years, it may have taken them losing their jobs to find the integrity to do this, but good on the Democrats. It's about time, and has done a lot to restore my faith in this party.
They've got my support for 2012. I'll work to get them re-elected, like I did in '08.
And less than an hour after the vote goes through CNN brings up the partners of gay military members and how they might be affected ie: benefits!!! Nicely done Contessa.
Whoops.....MSNBC
Yay!!!!!!!
Thanks to Rachel Maddow herself for her voice and help in making the repeal happen. Sometimes speaking the truth works.
Yes, great job, Rachel!
And, rest well Dan Choi-you are an American hero-get well soon!
The photo does so much for this post - I've got chills. Sitting here absorbing this, and staring at the photo, I feel as though they've allowed us to visit lady liberty and climb into her pedestal ... but now have allowed us up to the crown.
You queens can all wear the crown now!
Ya you can! That crown sparkles. With equaity. Wear. It. Well.
There has never in my life been a street fight in which the queen element, if you will, has not, ahem, tipped the scales. Queens can scale and overcome every world problem, if only given the chance... Seriously. Have you ever, at 3am, confronted a crazy bigot? Queens will KILL for you if it is the right thing to do. All hail. Give queens the power. They will not abuse it. But they will get some @!$%# DONE.
In killer heels.
@Deut Dude i'd pay significant admission price or cover charge to see you come out of your beer-bottle-and-pizza-box-littered... home and say that face to face to Fehrenbach and/or Choi and/or Almy and/or Alva.
We did it! It FINALLY happened! I love the quote used from Rachel Maddow.We the people have spoken and enough have heard! Another step forward in ensuring the Equal Rights of ALL Americans!!!
I reposted it to my FB account.
DADT. RIP. Good riddance.
Finally ! Justice comes rolling down like mighty water ;-D
"Amen!"
Yeehaw...one step, one baby step at a time...a long time but moving forward. Yeehaw!
why?
it may be months or a few years in coming, but i'm waiting for the other shoe -- other boot to drop.
PS - marry me, Lt. Col. Fehrenbach? :P oh, wait; still can't do that, federally speaking. :(
Today I take pride in being an American.
Next:
Equal rights for ALL.
Funny...when Michelle said that no progressives came to her rescue.
Today's events have left me discombobulated. Not one well known GAY came to Michelle's rescue.
WHY?
Anyone have a link to Rachel coming to Michelle's rescue on this point?
Progressiveness is all a SHAM! All it is...is Tea Party BS in reverse.
What? Everyone on the Left came to her defense.
This is the most pathetic attempt by a Teabagger to cause dissension among Democrats that I've seen in a long time. Gays are too happy to care. The rest of us are happy for them.
Cry among yourselves (Boehner and McConnell can lead you in this) and try to act like a human being for a change instead of a rodent or insect. You thought you were fooling anyone other than your own with such a silly post?