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Politicians across the spectrum call for America's "energy independence." It may be the most agreed-upon issue in this country, this argument that we have to be free of foreign oil. The reason that never happens is that it's the wrong argument, the wrong debate, the wrong conversation. There is no such thing as a separate foreign oil supply and a domestic one. Oil drilled here gets trucked to the international market, where we buy it just like every other country.
Last night on the show, Rachel Maddow argued that it's time to start having the right conversation, no matter how painful:
Energy independence is not the issue. The issue is dependence on oil, period. And it's an important distinction because we are at a point where we actually need to do something about our dependence on oil.
And we can't do anything meaningful about it unless we change the grounds on which this argument is taking place unless we have the argument we should be having, we are capable of having, which is an argument not about where and whether and how much oil we drill.
It's about the fact that we use too much oil. If we are really truly going to try to solve the energy crisis, the energy crisis we are actually in, in this country, we need to be precise about what the crisis is. And that means ditching the platitudes and the speechifying about energy independence and admitting that the crisis is oil.
It's not where we get oil or how we get oil. It's just oil. And an oil crisis cannot be solved by drilling more oil anywhere. If we as a country are ready to fire that one extra synapse, and think seriously about the real problem at hand, the problem of oil the fact that we need too much of it, then we can start talking about we can do, what we are actually capable of doing to solve our oil problem.
And then, we can face up to what we are going to have to sacrifice in order to do it. It's going to be a pretty painful conversation. But here's the thing -- it's only going to get more painful the longer we put it off.
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We've put off the conversion from oil to renewable energy for decades and the pain is excruciating in so many ways. Climate change, environmental disasters and economic misery are the hallmarks of the petroleum industry. There seems to be a mindset within the industry that "anything goes" in the search for cost-savings; the inhabitants of the Gulf - flora and fauna - are the latest population to feel that consequence. We have the tools, the talent, and the technology to make a conversion to sustainable energy and the oil disaster in the Gulf should serve as the turning point in our energy policy.
Yes, we have the tools but we as a species do not have the will. We will change our behaviour but unfortunately I do not think it will happen until we run out of this toxic hydrocarbon. As severe as this disaster is I do not think much will change until that time comes.
"We as a species do not have the will"....You are I fear, probably right, vin...for many americans it's much too inconvenient to make changes. I enjoy creature comforts too but do we really need a walmart at every corner, do we really need all that junk many of us buy? I remember when buying cheaply made products that were made in China was something to be avoided. And now with the rise of the Walmart nation no one cringes any more. They just buy it no matter how cheap and just because it's cheap, forgetting how cheaply made it is. As long as we the american consumer continues to support the corporations whose last consideration (if there is consideration at all) is the well being of their employees, be that in China, India or wherever there will be no incentive for these companies to change. And sadly even that may not be enough!
The truth, at last and fearlessly
You would think that people would understand this .... has been an issue since the '70's! Don't stop telling people .... apparently they still haven't gotten it!
Yep, you are right. It's like there is no american gold, air or sea water. Telling ameicans something they don't want to hear is like pissing in the wind. We all know that there are three things that are pure american - their oil, their god and their democracy. All else is delusional.
Rachel,
Does anyone know where all the hazardous waste that is being picked up off the beaches is going? It can't be burned, or buried in a landfill without violating EPA rules. I wonder if it is going to the same place as the dead wildlife in plastic bags is going - weighted down and dropped into the ocean maybe? Out of sight out of mind???
There are facilities to separate oil from sand and water already in place. From there the oil goes to the refinery. Why are there facilities in place? Because oil spills in the gulf are nothing new, they've been happening for many decades, but usually they are a few thousand barrels, not a few hundred million.
I would like to know the same thing, Jon. Very good question that I had not thought of.
Of course it can be burned, that's what is happening to the oil @ the sight. The oil that is being recovered directly from the well, is being burned via 2 different flare booms.
Concerning the effluent from the beaches, the solids are separated from the liquids & cleaned. Since the vast majority of the VOCs have been outgassed into the atmoshphere, the oil is not worth refining.
Instead, the effluent is pumped into disposal wells, or it is used to pump into old oil reservoirs in which the majority of the oil that can be recovered, already has been.
When it is pumped in it those old fields, it displaces the remaining oil in the formation so that the oil floats on top of the effluent from the beaches.
I live just outside New orleans and there have been several local reports that BP is dumping the used oil boom into local landfalls along the Gulf. When reporters questioned landfill management the response was that the boom isn't toxic. I believe the local channel that ran the piece was WWL tv in new orleans. The absurdity continues!
My email exchange with Mayor of London re: BP, part 1, http://bit.ly/9FULCH, part 2, http://bit.ly/bIIceu, and part 3, http://bit.ly/dvqQzs.
Maybe people will finally start to "get it" when gas prices reach $10 a gallon. Ah, but even then it'll just be the "money".
There are several pillars to the Pickens Plan:
>Create millions of new jobs by building out the capacity to generate up to 22 percent of our electricity from wind. And adding to that with additional solar generation capacity;
>Building a 21st century backbone electrical transmission grid;
>Providing incentives for homeowners and the owners of commercial buildings to upgrade their insulation and other energy saving options; and
>Using America's natural gas to replace imported oil as a transportation fuel in addition to its other uses in power generation, chemicals, etc.
http://www.pickensplan.com/theplan/
ty for link
The Pickens Plan appears to rely heavily on domestic natural gas. Harvesting natural gas is not without hazards. Recent reports on contaminated water supplies indicate that the process of facturing to recover the natural gas results in toxic chemicals entering the ground water supply. Let's be careful not to create yet another monster.
Pickens was trying so hard to prove he is "green" by pushing the wind and solar portions of his plan, but over time, he has pushed that to the back, and showed his true agenda--- natural gas. While natural gas is cleaner than oil or coal, it is still a fossil fuel, and therefore, contributes to the accumulation of more climate-altering CO2. In addition, it has the other handicap that oil has---it is available in finite quantities. Add to that the incredible danger of tanker ships hauling liquified natural gas, (scenarios of one being detonated by a terrorist in NY harbor are equivalent to a nuclear blast), and the dangers start to really add up. Wind and solar can't completely replace oil, but a much more concerted push needs to be made to increase their contribution to the energy generation balance. Put money into new solar technology that is developing solar panels that can double as shingles---it's just about ready for commercialization. Put money into an invention that just won a major prize in Europe---windows that contain a new form of solar cell that are still transparent. Imagine if we supported just those two initiatives to bring them to widescale production, and then worked to retrofit them on to as many houses as possible.
Not to sound like an absolutely contrarian, but how is natural gas cleaner? Certainly its extraction is not. Has anyone ever heard of "fraccing?" Natural gas is trapped in rock. Wells are drilled into rock, toxic chemicals, and water are injected into the well at extreme high pressure which fractures the rock, releasing natural gas. The chemicals seep into the water table, contaminating and poisoning the water and the soil. Toxic chemicals poison the air. The vibrations from the operation constitute considerable sound pollution. The process has been traced to earthquakes in Dallas Texas. Thanks to the hard work of Dick Cheney, there are no federal regulations for gas drilling. Only local ones. And you know how effective those are. All of this was covered in the last issue of the Nation magazine.
So how is natural gas clean, anyone?
Honda has been building natural gas vehicles for the postal service since the '80's. It not the whole answer to the problem but natural gas does burn cleaner than gasoline, and our reserves of natural gas in this country far exceed the oil we can get out of this country.
This problem is hard. Better battery tech for electric cars would be good but coal-burning power plants put out 40% of the carbon emissions.
Anyway, everyone keep thinking!
Natural gas extraction using hydrofracking is indeed an environmental disaster. Just ask the good citizens of West Virginia where toxic fracking fluids have polluted their streams and groundwater. The documentary film Gasland will premiere on HBO tonight; I recommend it. http://www.hbo.com/documentaries/gasland/index.html
Regarding wind power, the capacity factor (ratio of actual energy produced to the energy that would be produced rated capacity) for wind power is only 20 - 30%, and it is worst in the summer when the nation needs more energy. Furthermore, the environmental impact of industrial wind turbines is not benign. Take a tour of northern West Virginia as an example. Bird and bat kill rates are significant, and the power infrastructure needed for these massive towers despoils large areas of forest.
With no reliable way to store the energy produced, both wind and solar still require a baseload source of power such as coal, nuclear or hydro to provide energy when the wind isn't blowing or the sun isn't shining.
The stone age didn't end because stones became extinct & the age of oil won't end because we ran out of oil.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the only way that we can stop importing oil is by utilizing our natural gas. Natural gas burns about 30% cleaner than gasoline or diesel. There are still nitrogen oxides in the exhaust, but they are in much lower range than burned gasoline, diesel or coal. We have more natural gas than any other country in the world, w/o ever touching the shale gas that has become the new boom.
They horizontally drill through through the gas shale formation, as opposed to in the days past, when we drilled right through them vertically, on the way towards deeper & more productive gas & oil
If 70% of our automobiles were electric, we could recharge them all without the necessity of building another electric generating plant. The majority of the vehicles would have to be recharged @ night during the off-peak hours.
But that way, the power plants could operate @ a full-tilt boogie, 24/7 & 365. They operate @ around 90% efficiency when they don't have to throttle-up during the day & slack-off @ night.
The power plants will have to complete their fuel-switching, from coal to natural gas.
Most of the oil that we use is refined into gasoline & diesel.
LPG has been used as a motor fuel for over 60 yrs. now. My own 1972 F-150 3/4 ton p/u, has been using LPG as a motor fuel for 35 years. I still have the option to burn gasoline, by merely flipping a toggle switch on the dash.
References please, Tabula?? To support your assertions.
THANK YOU, Rachel, for this commentary. I've been waiting for someone to start this conversation as I've watched the mega-disaster unfold day after day in the Gulf. No, let me correct myself: I've been waiting for someone to start this conversation publicly since I watched the Exxon Valdez disaster unfold 21 years ago while I was a college student at the University of Alaska.
I find it difficult to excuse self-service with ignorance, assuming some don't understand the real nature of the problem. At least, for those more aware, I think it is more likely a choice to be selfish and ignore/camouflage the problem in efforts to not deal with it.
It is much easier for some to choose inaction, knowing the consequences will most likely not fall upon us so much as the future generations that will follow; at which point, it will have serious adverse effects on daily activities, environmental conditions, and our country's productivity and sovereignty.
There will come a time when it will be too late to act, when effectual transition to alternative energies is no longer feasible with the resources we still have at our disposal to maintain the lifestyle we take for granted; then may God have mercy on the blockheads who condemn our grandchildren.
Unfortunately we are the blockheads! How many of us are willing to change the way we live? The clean energy bill needs to be passed now! This bill needs to be rammed down our necks. Politics be damned! My opinion is that the bill does not go far enough. Barak is a good man but he needs to grow some for the good of the country/world.
You are the only one who has had the courage to say that. Please don't stop!
Rachel, I've just become a convert to your show. Thank you for challenging the fools among us! This country has gotten downright frightening. The twisting of truths, the distortions of everything President Obama says and does. At least they are showing their real devotion is to big business and not the people....and was not the Constitution writtten...'We the People'? And not we the business.? When in fact the Founders of this country warned against Big Business?
I would like to see someone challenge the children who now sit in Congress to rise above their personal judgements, and petty views and act like adults (which I'm pretty sure we did elect adults to run the country) and determine what is best for the country and not their own pockets.
Laws need to be written that those who lead this country either have a cap on investments or are not allowed to invest in business at all!. Instead they are to invest in what they were elected to do. Not one of our so-called leaders appears to have the importance of the people in mind any longer. Except maybe the President and he gets accused of being a socialist just because he wants every American to enjoy the wealth. Ah, how they work on the fears of those who have forgotten or maybe never knew how to think for themselves.
It is said that Americans have a short attention span. Is there anyone out there who would like to address the possible cause for this?
You could call it being incredibly overworked and equally underpaid. My friends have that glazed, exhausted look in their eyes constantly. They come home at the end of a long day and they are too exhausted to care. And these are caring, educated people. But the American "dream" has become such a nightmare for those of us considered the Middle Class that we're too worn to the bone to give a damn. Which is exactly where Big Business wants us and has gotten us. "Keep them too exhausted and broke and they won't have the energy to fight."
The Dream went out the window the minute we began to give Big Business the upper hand and the free will to do what it wants.
And now we are seeing just how much Big Business cares about us and about our world.
Please keep pounding away....too many are paralyzed, too many are too exhausted to rise up and question the lies they are being told constantly by the Republicans....too many are buying into the fear and the distortions they are painting as truth.
My only hope is that now that they are showing their truths about business being more important that more people will wake up and see that the reason we are in this predicament has not to do with a President who has been in office just a little over a year BUT those who ruled the White House for the last 30 years. This is what they need to be reminded of, again and again....where the heck is Cheney...why aren't we calling for his head as Chris Matthews did??? You go, Chris!
We're not all asleep, we're not all uninterested, and we're not all dumb as the videos show us to be.
There is something so wrong when people like sarah palin and that orly kook are winning elections. And Rachel it's the most frightening kind of dumb....for like the former President it's the kind of ignorance that doesn't recognize itself as being just that. And it makes for a very dangerous mix....dumb and arrogant.
please keep up the good work and keep pounding away to get thru the heads that have become too paralyzed to think for themselves.
My sentiments exactly!
Very well said Colleen.
Dumb arrogance, proud stupidity, the hallmarks of a civilization in decline. Sad.
I hope with all this discussion about oil and the current disaster in the gulf does not take our minds off just as crucial a problem. That problem, is fresh water. Remember only 3% of the planets' water is fresh water. It is being used and polluted at an alarming rate! No problem you may say. We will use desalinization. Remember, desalinization costs money. Who can afford to do that? Only the rich! Beware of privatization of the earth's fresh water supply. It is already happening!
I agree Kris and am happy to see you here. The following is an excerpt of comments from a post in Multiply site. The blog referred to Joe Barton's comment and Jim wrote, " So, good people, if you want well heeled corporations to ride roughshod over your own interests, start wearing tea bags on your head and vote Republican". In the following, what troubled me were Katiebritts comments. I am smallcrop, but enjoyed Elffkins comments.
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katiebrit44 wrote today at 2:17 AM, edited today at 3:39 AM
ixtaccihuatl said
British Petroleum.
I watched this appalling public spectacle on TV yesterday. Trial by television that would have brought pride to the Roman forum or the lynch mobs of the wild West. It was the behaviour of a banana republic not a World superpower. One man's head on a plate to deflect from the incompetencies that have occurred in Washington DC and will reverberate in the November mid term elections. What a difference 18 months makes to a Presidency which started with such a bang but will go out with a whimper.
So, America has suddenly become environmentally friendly? Well Whoopee Dee! Is this the same America who refused to sign the Kyoto Protocol when the rest of the World was pleading for it to help save the Planet? The same America whose Union Carbide Bhopal tragedy caused so many thousands of people to die in India and for which not one American head has rolled? The Piper Alpha disaster in 1988? The Torrey Canyon disaster in 1967? Suddenly it's "Not in our backyard.....off with his head!. Let's slice him and dice him on Capitol Hill".
I didn't hear America being pilloried for the toxic debt it created causing a World wide recession and nobody arranged a media circus of Wall Street Bankers to be accountable to us, the people whom it affected.
"British Petroleum" has not been called that since 1998 when it merged with Amoco. The score is 40% British ownership, 39% American ownership. The remainder is multinational. Transocean owned the rig, the crew were all Americans but anyone watching this circus yesterday would think Tony Hayward, personally, went down and sprang that leak just because he could.
Anyway, enough, the lights are still on and wasting energy in Vegas.......time for me to grab a cup of Lipton's tea.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1285731/GULF-OIL-SPILL-When-disaster-strikes-US-NEVER-blame.html
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elfffkin wrote today at 3:09 AM
The whole media circus is nauseating. I haven't heard one so-called leader speak for the American people, or the planet, in truely compassionate terms. The corporate abuse is appalling, and the government corruption and inaction just as bad. Plus, stopping all drilling the gulf doesn't help anybody, since it just puts more people in the region out of work, on rigs that have good safety records. It's an all-around tragedy, and we need real coordinated action to assess and prevent further environmental and economic damage. BP is irresponsible and abusive and has a history of safety violations, but as you point out Katie, it's a multi-national corporation. It's up to the President to act for the American people; that's his job, and the job of Congress, and most of its members are bought and paid for by the corporations. Unfortunately, the same thing can happen in England, or anywhere. This planet is everybody's back yard.
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katiebrit44 wrote today at 3:18 AM, edited today at 3:37 AM
elfffkin said
the same thing can happen in England, or anywhere.
Lyn the same thing DID happen in England i.e. Torrey Canyon disaster which I remember very well. I don't recall Harold Wilson, the then Prime Minister, standing before the British people and pointing a finger across the Atlantic screaming "I will kick ass". It was an accident, it happened as these things do. You clean up the mess the best way you can and move on.
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elfffkin wrote today at 3:39 AM
I don't think this Gulf spill was exactly "an accident." Also, it hasn't stopped; it's continuing and there's no assurance it will stop because it's a blown deep water well. Even drilling relief wells may not work to stop it. I think that unsafe drilling practices caused it. The Torrey Canyon tanker disaster I think, if I recall correctly, was caused by a navigational error. I don't know if it was one of the early tankers without the double hull. It was also owned multi-nationally. The question is how multi-nationals are required to respond for their misdeeds, and how to prevent it from happening again, and how to do the best to repair the damage. Certainly money helps in the short term, so getting BP to pay damages is only justice. Anyway, I don't think the American people blame anyone but the corporate entity of BP for what has happened, but they do want their government to take action, and BP should be held responsible. That's BP, not Britain or England or the English people. I haven't spoken to anyone in the Gulf, and I have relatives there, or any American that I know of, that blames Britain as a people or nation-state. I think Harold Wilson should have pointed across the Atlantic or wherever necessary, and threatened to kick ass. Just find the right ass to kick. Also, it would help to have a free and informative media that isn't controlled and provides detailed assessments rather than a media circus.
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katiebrit44 wrote today at 3:57 AM, edited today at 4:00 AM
elfffkin said
That's BP, not Britain or England or the English people
But it had to resort to a phone call from David Cameron to Obama to tell him to stop the finger pointing and stop making this a National issue. Since then, I notice he has toned down his rhetoric. That phone call should not have been necessary.
If justice is measured in financial terms where is the payout for the victims of Bhopal? 150,000 of whom are still suffering serious health problems. As for the payout by BP it will seriously hurt seniors here in the UK as most Pension Funds have huge amounts of stock invested with them. It will definitely affect me. Am I happy? I don't think you need to ask. Not with BP or with Obama's handling of it but I still maintain Tony Hayward's treatment yesterday was disgraceful.
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ixtaccihuatl wrote today at 11:49 AM, edited today at 12:08 PM
Katie - It is a mistake to confuse the American government with the American people. Also, remember that I am one of the owners of BP.
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smallcrop wrote today at 1:24 PM
"It will definitely affect me. Am I happy? I don't think you need to ask. Not with BP or with Obama's handling of it but I still maintain Tony Hayward's treatment yesterday was disgraceful."
What are you putting in your tea? How in the world can we get answers for "future" preventive measures of safety and restrictions if a CEO has no knowledge of his companies affairs? His salary definately exceeds his capabilities. His treatment wasn't disgraceful--he disgraced himself. It makes me wonder why Hayward sold 1/3 of his shares a month before the Deepwater Horizon rig exploded. Possibly because he was aware of incompetent handling of the entire operation. The men working on the rig, tried in vain to warn of improper orders/decisions from above, and of impending disaster, but their attempts went ignored and unheeded. Odd how Tony Hayward is also a committe member of Audit and Health, Safety, & Environment.
In 08 Bush blamed the Congress (Democrats) for soaring energy prices. Bush lifted the restrictions including a ban on offshore drilling. The Dems voted on "use it or lose it" because oil companies have been sitting on 68 million acres of federal land with potential to double U.S. oil production. The "use it or lose it" only required big oil companies to develope these resources or lose their leases. President Obama walked into a huge mess and so many blame him. That's politics. He stands up for the people unlike most other politicians.
Bhopal was settled financially for the stricken people there along with a hospital they funded--I believe still do.
"It was an accident, it happened as these things do. You clean up the mess the best way you can and move on. "
That is a huge understatement and sounds rather cold. This is far more than an accident! Why in all humanity hasn't any funds ever been put towards clean-up by the oil companies themselves? PERIOD Sadly, because the bigwigs and share-holders didn't want a few bucks taken from their own pockets for the better good of our environment and mankind. Every man for himself! It's as simple and sad as that. Now, shareholders blame President Obama for their loss. It may please some to know that shares actually went up the past couple days. ?--leaves me speechless.
Miss Katie--this accident as you call it is not spilt milk or a fendor bender. Clean up the mess best you can and move on. My God, this "accident" hasn't stopped yet. 60 days and counting. Our sealife, wildlife, marshes, beaches, eco system is dying. People are sick. People's lost livelihoods are trickling from one to the next. The "little people" work hard in life--not only for their own livelihood, but it also benefits many other's of our society.
Hmmm, in the future I wonder--What restaurant's will CEO's frequent -- to be served by the "little people" for lobster?
Charter Boats?
Room with a view?
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elfffkin wrote today at 1:39 PM, edited today at 3:30 PM
It's a national issue, in the sense that the American people and nation are impacted, and it's a national issue in that sense for Britian as well. It's a tragedy in the sense that this country is now paying for its hubris and greed and lack of respect for the environment and its failure to respond to other humans who have suffered in the past, such as those in India, or anywhere, in England and Europe as well. But BP is culpable, no doubt about it. And people will lose their lives, livelihoods, and way of life. So, that may mean that BP has to pay out money, and BP stockholders won't get paid dividends, but why is that? BP could still pay dividends, as it makes vast, vast profits every year, and pay for clean-up, but that's it's choice, so as to keep it's profits for its greedy executives. And it may hurt seniors in Britain; it's going to hurt a lot of people even more, and people have already died. Why not "nationalize" BP and other oil and energy companies, so they work for the benefit of communities and nations? Oh, no, that would be "socialism." The pain has just started. Just hope the damned relief well works! The environment is dying, that we depend on to survive. There will be plenty of pain all around. The ultimate tragedy, is that now the governments of the US and the UK, can't even manage to unite in a response, and England is our oldest ally and our mother country and culture. The war in Iraq weakened the Atlantic alliance, and now this oil spill is damaging our ties to our mother, both culturally and with mother nature. And our corporate owned governments, are in disarray, but I promise you as individuals they are all living in luxury, and none of the corporate or government officials will lose their lives or livelihood. Let me ask you: how do you feel about the fact that the US and other nuclear nations own 30,000 nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction? What will happen if one or more of those goes off? Civilization can very easily be destroyed, not to mention vast numbers of human deaths--that's just the beginning. Do we care about one another? Time to realize we are all human, living on one planet, and get down to the business of fighting for a future for our children, all of them, human children, not just Americans or Iraqis or Indians or English, and for our one fragile planet. It's not a mystical notion; it's reality. Wake up.
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elfffkin wrote today at 2:48 PM
Also, Katie, catch on to the fact: if the corporate owned-media in the UK, can make a corporate clone like Hayward into a national martyr, then possibly BP will be saved a few corporate dollars--by telling the British people that the money coming out of their pockets is being taken by "the bad Americans." I would say that Hayward and this Senator Barton from Texas, both have their heads so far up each others' asses, that it's amazing either one can breathe or speak.
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ixtaccihuatl wrote today at 6:26 PM
I just read something that confused me. It appears that, according to Transocean, the Deepwater Horizon rig bears the flag of the Republic of the Marshall Islands:
http://bit.ly/clAahx
Perhaps we should invade them ... but no, I can see the quagmire already.
The more I look at it, the more I think that there is plenty of blame to spread around. Perhaps the ultimate villain is the laissez-faire political trend of the U.S. over the last 30 years:
http://consortiumnews.com/2010/052010.html
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elfffkin wrote today at 6:51 PM
"Over the past 30 years, Reaganism and its spinoffs under George H.W. and George W. Bush caused or contributed to: Deregulation of corporations, union-busting, tax cuts for the wealthy, a shrinking middle class, lost manufacturing jobs, unprecedented federal debt, unbridled Wall Street greed, bubble-and-bust cycles, the worst recession since the Great Depression, two unfinished wars, erosion of civil liberties, environmental degradation, and a continued dependence on fossil fuels, especially foreign oil." Multi-national corporate control of our Western democracies and economies is as big or bigger threat to our way of life than Islamic terrorism. We can defeat the later, but can we confront, control, and defeat the multi-nationals? These corporations operate largely out of the control of national governments, the United Nations, or international law. Yet, they are composed of humans such as ouselves, in fact ourselves at times as stockholders...so...we have "met the enemy, and he is us." (Pogo Papers)
Kris, we don't have children in Congress, we have people who have been bought off. I never realized how strong the emotion of greed is till I watched the financial collapse:
The head of Lehmaan Brothers took a $400 million settlement. One hedge fund manager was making $3.7 billion/year.
We need term limits in Congress. Eight years and out!
BTW, you would not believe the billions that are made in the defense industry. I know because I used to work for a military contractor. I now understand the term corrupt military contract. Companies, congressmen all get a piece of that action.
The sentiment behind this segment was, as always, well thought out and clearly delivered, and I was with you 100%, and when I first heard it at 3am this morning I thought it was great, then I listened again after some sleep and a coffee and and was astonished your NIMBY-ism. I know you're seriously peeved about the current disaster in the gulf, but, Where is completely safe to drill for oil? Some other country that you don't care about as much because it's not America? Really? This is a global problem. One that can only be solved by all countries working together. Remind me again which country was it that dragged its heels in signing the Kyoto protocol?
If drilling isn't safe enough for American waters, is it safe enough anywhere? Should the countries with the most power and money not be forcing the oil companies to put money into R&D to ensure that when blowouts like this do happen they know how to clean it up without killing everything that surrounds the drill site. and have a strong enough government and regulatory agencies to ensure that the shortcuts that were taken by a money grabbing oil company like BP can't be taken in the future. Completely banning drilling in American waters will only move the problem around the planet, but as long as the USA is alright, that's fine, huh? Thanks for the support.
Imogen you are so right. Drilling and extracting oil is not safe anywhere anytime. It is toxic to the environment anywhere and anytime it is introduced into the ecosphere. But I am sure that there will never be a time that the people of the world will work together on this issue. At least not until the very last well is running dry.
Humans are like grasshoppers they clearly as a species have no forsight and will never plan for winter.
imogenfm, I did not get "nimbyism" from the segment as you did - I am not native to this country, still I did not see a bias towards "not in America" - can you help me here?
imogenfm is not a native to America either, though I think she's cool as hell. How goes it lass?
NIMBY stands for Not In My Back Yard. Meaning that otherwise necessary facilities and institutions you would fight to keep from having built near your communitiy...like prisons, factories, mental institutions, or oil wells. NIMBYism is to engage in such preferences or activities.
My only contribution to the discussion is "Whaaa?" Is there ANYONE who are drilling wells safely? Why don't they come here and show us how its done? All I see that we have is an ass-load of "there but for the Grace of God" which has failed us devastatingly at least once and problably not for the last time. In an industry that can bring in billions in any given quarter, that it is too expensive is not an excuse! All of the oil companies investigated had roughly the same emergency response plan down to Carribean walruses and dead experts - how are we supposed to believe that their safety equipment is any better regardless of how shallowly they drill?
mightbealiberal, sure, from the transcript, and I have highlighted the sentence that set off alarms in my brain:
The way I understand that is drill "Anywhere but America", let other countries drill for oil. From there my claim of nimbyism. I'm more than willing to be enlightened to how else that can be understood.
As Don Quixokie points out I'm not an American either, I'm also not a resident of the USA, so maybe I'm being overly sensitive as a resident of "Anywhere but America", that has oil fields within a hundred miles of the coast, our oil fields might be small, much like the country, but we have also had our share of disasters, including the explosion on the Piper Alpha oil rig that had the highest human death toll of any oil disaster to date.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_Alpha
Such endeavours are never going to be 100% safe, but they can be made more safe by holding the companies who own and run these rigs focus on safety, even if it's just reading the licence application properly and fact checking it. That, to my European brain, is and should be one of the roles of the government when issuing the licences. After Piper Alpha new laws were brought in with regards to safety inspections on oil rigs in the UK, which will seem to work until the next time something blows up, and then there will be more regulations for oil companies to adhere to, it works for us, but I can understand why they may be more difficult to introduce in the US where money seems to be far more important in getting elected than it is here. *shrug*
Don, Thank you :)
Thanks for your reply, imogenfm.
Let's face it, we need our government to help us through this. When I think of the money that was spent and still being spent on senseless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan it sickens me. That money could have been spent to invest in renewable energy. What about interest free loans and rebates to Americansto purchase electric or solar cars. Can you imagine what building alternative energy cars would do for our economy? I for one would love to buy a car that uses sustainable energy but cannot afford it. Americans have grown fat and lazy and are terrified of change. Past generations who were ignorant to this problem and who chose to pass it on have created this mess for us and we will have to sacrifice to give our children a clean earth and independent America.
This conversation to get OFF OIL is long long past due for SOMEONE to call the Presidential Past the Hypocrisy it has been.
The American Sheeple have been lied to and no longer really care as long as energy keeps coming.
As long as the "I" in them do not have to change or sacrifice.
It is past time the lies be exposed in order to have an intelligent discussion of this energy transformation.
Bill Moyers rare video 1987 the secret government 1-9 http://ow.ly/204vo
Watch the entire nine segments...educate yourself about YOUR government.
As for "oversight" of such "Secret Government"...Dick Cheney n Co were, in essence, STILL 'in charge' of the Minerals Management people in an Obama government.
Tar Balls, slicks, dead zones and soon to enter the Atlantic and mess with the polar current when it reaches to cold water of the Arctic, where Walruses DO live.
CLEAN, NEW and Exotic Energies are about LIES on the Ground.
Make the final conclusion that there IS a valid "seed" of distrust of Greedy Government and Cannibal Capititalists among the people.
Your own passion shows the same "seed" but different flow patterns and ratios bringing insight across the synapses.
The more the Hubris is exposed the incredulous it becomes to believe what is 'truth from power'.
How can we speak "Truth to Power" as a people on a personal level having no directed output efficacy of that mass human energy?
HONEST Bureaucrats and HONORABLE Soldiers
Truth is often Brutal. It can shatter a world view based on lies.
But as pointed out, levies built of sand will be but crumbs for the maws of the next Suprecaines because of Gulf Water Temperature Rising.
It IS PAST TIME for a "Shortening of the Way" become "viral".
There is a certain hubris to science, a belief that the more we develop technology and the more we learn, the better our lives will be. Tlaloc, A Time for Titans DUNE
I care not for myself but for humanity as a species and leaving this planet to once more return to the stars where we once cavorted and lived.
We cannot get there on a reality based on the sands of lies to the people.
When the First Responders, Military Heroes, Honest Humans willing to speak BRUTAL TRUTH to the "seed" of our current post 911 psyche come forth...you back away.
This cannot be allowed to happen if our republic is to remain free. Even you see the hypocrisy's of Bush/Obama in policy.
Obama is Bush graduating from high school. From the Kindergarten classroom of Bush photo op to Obama behind Military in Gulf Coast Oil Disaster.
Same people, prostitutes, peddlers, pimps, props, policy, prattling, political pigeon poop.
"Crime, once exposed, has no refuge but in audacity." Cornelius Tacitus
"The first war crime committed in any war of aggression by the aggressors is against the truth" - Michael Parenti
Political language. . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind: George Orwell
We create our own future by our own beliefs, which control our actions. A strong enough belief system, a sufficiently powerful conviction, can make anything happen. This is how we create our consensus reality, including our gods. - DUNE Reverend Mother Ramallo, Sayyadina of the Fremen
“Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don’t allow our enemies to have guns, why should we allow them to have ideas?” - Joseph Stalin
The capacity to learn is a gift;
The ability to learn is a skill;
The willingness to learn is a choice. - Rebec of Ginaz DUNE
http://patriotsquestion911.com/
ALL ROADS LEAD BACK TO GROUND ZERO
In a technological culture, progress may be viewed as the attempt to move more quickly into the future, rushing to make known the unknown. - Mother Superior Harishka DUNE
Exotic Energy requires a shake from a Dead Dinosaur Mindset.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XDFT0Yv_hg
http://www.archive.org/details/DavidSereda-DifferentialsCropCirclesAndAnti-gravity
REALLY OLD TECH...NOT being used:
Clean, Green, Renewable, Taxable, and thousands of uses besides BEST Ethanol EVER !!!
And...can be used as material to MANUFACTURE automobiles HERE in the United States:
http://relegalize.info/hemp/08-organic-biofuel.shtml
Bob
http://mycommonsensepolitics.net/
I agree that the problem is oil, but that is too often translated into "green" speak, which becomes unnecessarily divisive. We need to drop the green arguments, and focus on:
1) The health of our economy assumes cheap and virtually unrestricted access to energy.
2) There is no thing as domestic oil. While we have oil reserves within our sphere of influence, the price will always be determined mostly by countries who are hostile to the US. The only way to change that is to short-circuit capitalism with price controls or by nationalizing the resources.
3) Oil is finite. There is less of it today than there was yesterday, and when the acute supply crisis happens, prices will rise faster than we will be able to develop alternate energy supplies. Rome will be burning and we will be arguing about carbon credits.
There is no well defined solution to this problem, but what is well defined is the fact that our future depends on non-fossil fuel energy sources.
The United States needs a government that helps. This is true. The problem with that is we only have half of our government that wants to help correct the 'oil' problem. The Conservative half likes the personal perks that comes from 'not correcting' the oil problem.
Your segment on oil was very, very good, and needs to be printed on our napkins, but it won't be. We all know that, as well. So, what can we do? Is there, at this point in time, an actual way to convert the country to thinking outside their automobile? If there is, Obama will think of it. So, what we can do is support him and his efforts. He was the first president to get Health Care accomplished, albeit a long way from perfect. Maybe he can be the first president to really get independence from oil.
One blogger posted his suspicion that the CEO of BP had a Cheshire Cat grin on his face when he was being grilled by Congress. I had a similar thought. I could almost see his wheels turning and thinking, "These are a bunch of idiots." And, I agree with that. To go before Congress is just a power play of idiots trying to look smart and tough for the camera. Their whole agenda is to get re-elected or, as in Barton's display, to suck up for money. It's a display that is embarrassing for the country and boring for the reporters. And, I might add, entertains the world. But, it doesn't fool the CEOs. They just play the game, then leave and have a laugh with their colleagues over a beer. They know 'oil' is the God of America.
I keep thinking of those religious fundamentalists who believe in a Hell pit under ground. BP may have found it, and it's being disguised as Heaven. America has sold its soul for oil. It's that soul that's being lost to the next generation.
I really enjoy watching you, Rachel, when I know a little on a subject and you fill in all the details. Today, as I re-thought the "oil is oil is oil" segment, I realized I needed a word that meant way less than "little" to describe my knowledge (and I just hate it when that happens!) Surely I'm not the only one stumbling around amongst questions like who is OPEC and do they collect and sell their oil independently of one another and is the International Oil Market a giant oil puddle or is it a collection of pricing methodologies based upon world, US, and OPEC benchmarks and how do the 3 US oil reserves fit into the picture? In training, it's good to establish a "baseline knowledge". If I'm alone, then I need to research and write my own pre-course...however, if there are others who really don't know beans about oil, your ongoing dissection of the subject could prove incredibly valuable at this critical juncture in garnering support for clean energy. And, for what it's worth, I see how we might move toward a "clean energy dependence"...but how would "energy independence" even be possible?
Where can I get the real story of world oil supply? Everyone I talk to finds the idea of "no domestic oil," and the fact that we don't actually use American ludicrous. Where can I get the facts in black and white to prove the point?
Decreasing or eliminating dependance on oil would shrink defense dept budgets... too much is invested in dependance, defense of and profiting from oil. I'm ashamed of my generation.
I am 63 and perhaps slow on the take. All oil drilled here goes to the international market and then sold? Do we refine it first. Why can't we do our own drilling..refine the oil and use it for out needs?
Do all in Congress understand this? If so then why such hesitation to pass enviornmental and clean energy legislation?
I appreciate the Rachel Maddow Show!
Oil price $ is based on decisions of Casino Capititalists. Like the price of derivatives. Because there are a relative few families who control vast vast amounts of wealth can rig any game...anytime.
Like Spill after spill and TARP...we only learn when they frack up big time.
Sheeple must awaken
Thank you Rachel, for finally saying the same thing on national tv that many of us have been saying here and elsewhere on the internet for quite a while. "Drill, baby, drill" is a lie, always has been a lie, no matter how it's been packaged, or who has been packaging, repub or dem, at the local, state and federal levels. Back during the presidential election in 2008, when the "drill, baby, drill" mantra was at it shrillest, I was engaging with some of the right wingers who were singing from that choirbook. In the end, I laid down a challenge to them. Firstly, the oil companies already have tens of millions of acres of land under lease inside the continental US, leases that haven't been used, or even shown any signs of exploration, in years. I said I would support offshore drilling if the oil companies first gave up those leases, as it was apparent that they were far more interested in drilling for oil offshore in order to justify charging higher prices for oil. Secondly, I said that I would support offshore drilling if the oil companies shipped all the oil extracted from those wells exclusively to refineries in the US, and sold the products from those refineries exclusively inside the US. After all, we were told that offshore drilling was necessary for our energy independence, both by the oil companies and by repubs. Not surprisingly, the response was....utter silence....you could have heard an internet pin drop! Even the far right recognizes that they are pulling a scam when they say that offshore drilling will foster energy independence for this country. When you call them on it by making a reasonable suggestion that forces them to actually move toward energy independence, you call their bluff. I would love to see someone, whether it be you, or one of our esteemed legislators, bring this challenge up to oil companies and repub representatives. The stammering and the horrified looks on their faces would be priceless!
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/17/world/africa/17nigeria.html
Thank you for the link. What a sad story.
yes , oil is the problem . however , just a transition to a much less oil dependent economy aside from ingenuity , political strength , and lots of capital , it will require "time " and in the process our way of life could be seriously deteriorated . until then , we must drill and drill like there is no tomorrow , since we consume so much ...a transition to others fuels and technologies will require a worldwide effort like the present joint soverign ventures to contain the economic crisis ...
The real problem is : Whenever anyone says, "Hey, I got a GREAT IDEA! Let's SOLVE THIS PROBLEM!" Invariably, some fool will show up, throw his (or her) hands in the air and decry that "It's too expensive!" or "It's too hard!" or "It'll take too long" or "My hands are in the air!". The upshot being, It's just easier to keep screwing up the way we have been.
You try to work with these people. You try to show them all the new tools available. You try to show them the numbers involved and the real cost we are already paying compared to the cost involved in changing our ways (i.e. correcting our mistakes) and you just don't make a dent. They will have none of it. Drill, Baby, Drill, they chant! More, more MORE of the same, Same, SAME !
So you ask 'em, "HOW IS THAT GOING TO FIX THE PROBLEM?" And they pretend not to hear. It may well be they are not pretending. It may well be their nonsense is so loud as to make listening impossible. But I don't think so. I think that what they think the real problem is, is anyone trying to change anything. See, change requires first the admission that you were wrong.
Thanks, Sergio.
Hey ! Why did you mess up my name? Ain't supposed to be no number there, I removed that.
So how do I get rid of it?
As they said in the old Johnny Rivers song, "Secret Agent Man":
"They've given you a number, and taken 'way your name!" <cool guitar solo follows>
That helps a little, Guy. But only a little.
Thanks tho. I like the solo.
Something over two years ago I attempted to get our congressman and senators to listen to my plea to have a level playing field for diesel vehicles. It's too long for this blog, but the highlights are this: In Europe, over 50% of the vehicles run on diesel fuel. Their refineries are adjusted for this percentage. Diesel vehicles, both car and truck, get 30% better mileage than comparable gasoline powered vehicles. Truckers are buying the new diesel powered trucks, because they can save a lot of money on fuel, versus the great cost of pollution combating add-ons that they're forced to pay for the trucks. Over here, we're forced to use an ethanol mix in our gasoline, whether we want to do so or not. The subsidy for corn-based ethanol is the highest farm subsidy our government spends. Ethanol production spends (wastes) some 30+% of the energy to convert it from corn to oil. Other uses for corn have higher prices, due to the competition. Biodiesel oil, from many sources of biomass, including algae, convert on a 100% basis from raw source to fuel. Our automobiles are forced to thousands of dollars of higher cost, due to the pollution devices they're forced to put on. For the average person who buys a vehicle, the payback period is much too long to justify the higher investment. Who's stopping us from having this level playing field, where we can buy fuel efficient cars that can save us and the country some 30% of the fuel we consume, and Biodiesel fuel to fuel them? I believe that it's the oil companies, who don't want to build different refineries. I believe that it's the the gutless bureaucrats who are being financed by these oil companies who don't want to see change. I believe that it's the ethanol supporters who also do so. So - it's us poor average people who're stuck with the status quo, while the fat cats get fatter. We cannot shout past the static they're maintaining.