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The John McCain of 2005 sponsored comprehensive immigration reform that would have offered a path toward citizenship for people illegally in the country. "No wall, no barrier, no sensor, no barbed wire will ever stop people from trying to do what is a basic yearning of human beings all over the world, and that is to have better lives for themselves and their families," the Republican senator from Arizona said.
Five years later, McCain faces a tough primary challenge from the right, from J.D. Hayworth, and he's now pushing an ad with an Arizona sheriff, Paul Babeu of Pinal County, which is not on the border. "[C]omplete the danged fence," McCain says.
But in that ad, McCain's actually standing in Santa Cruz County, which is on the border. Where Sheriff Antonio Estrada tells us the border fencing in place already has made illegal immigration much worse.
"I'm not a fan of fences at all," Estrada said. "As a matter of fact, you know, when they started setting the fence here in the urban area, what they did is they created more problems for us. The traffic, the activity, we never had as a sheriff's office. The rural areas, we started seeing problems as a result of that. People were being pushed into these areas. We started having people that were dying out there, that were assaulted out there....A fence, to us, is not a solution."
Estrada opposes Arizona's new "Papers, please" law, calling instead for a more realistic, compassionate response. "It's absurd," he tells us. "I'm totally against it, and I really hope it goes away. It's like a nightmare. I think it's something we cannot afford to be straddled with."
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Me and my girlfriend LOVE YOU rachel! *dies*
As a law enforcement officer with over 22 years of experience I love Arizona's new law. I plan to start looking for those dang illegal Canadians as soon as possible. Papers please!
yeah canadian Caucasian looking instead of the mesicans that everyone else picks on!!
Sheriff Antonio Estrada makes a point by just being the handsome Latin American man he is. As soon as I saw him, I understood McCain's resistance in using him for his campaign. How much "tougher" do you get than a bald, white male? Mr Estrada would send a mixed message; he is a success in America, and he is attempting to keep our borders safe, while understanding the human need of those so eager to risk their lives for entry into a country that works so hard to discriminate against them. John McCain is a sad sack of a man...someone should have advised him to walk while he still had some dignity.
Is he Ericks dad? (chips). Cheezy commercial. Love the Navy hat always plugging country first. Unless it doesn't benefit me. Then I will change everything I have ever stood for and become whatever I have to be just to win. He seems to hate everyone now doesn't he.
FACT: Santa Cruz County Sheriff Tony Estrada is an anchor baby and his parents were illegals.
This is not a joke to the citizens of Arizona when he is preaching "open the borders" because many Arizona citizens are aware of this fact. It is also not lost on the Arizona citizens that he happens to be the Sherriff of the busiest illegal border crossing in the US. But no... he thinks we are causing more problems if we try toi seal the border... Ha!
It is also interesting that Santa Cruz County Sheriff Tony Estrada removed his biography from the Sherriff website just a few days ago...
Speaking of hypocrisy ... LA boycots Arizona while nobody says a word about California's EXISTING immigration laws...just exactly how does California pick out the ones “suspected of being present … in violation of federal immigration laws?” Profiling anyone?
834b. (a) Every law enforcement agency in California shall fully cooperate with the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service regarding any person who is arrested if he or she is suspected of being present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws.
(b) With respect to any such person who is arrested, and suspected of being present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws, every law enforcement agency shall do the following:
(1) Attempt to verify the legal status of such person as a citizen of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted as a permanent resident, an alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period of time or as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of immigration laws. The verification process may include, but shall not be limited to, questioning the person regarding his or her date and place of birth, and entry into the United States, and demanding documentation to indicate his or her legal status.
The California law is similar but different in many very important respects.
For one thing, it requires that local law enforcement cooperate with INS (ICE) -- with the implication that the initiative rests with the Federal authorities, whereas Arizona requires the locals to (arrogate to themselves Federal responsibilities, and then) initiate contact with ICE.
Also, California refers to a person "who is arrested" whereas Arizona refers to one who has merely had "lawful contact" (though I understand that this provision may have been modified). The difference is between already being formally charged with some felony or misdemeanor, and merely having had an encounter of almost any kind with law enforcement. California's requirement is simply a logical extension of the routine criminal history checks on arrestees which cops ought to do anyway; Arizona's is much more aggressive and applies to persons who may well never have been charged with any crime.
And California's is consistent with American jurisprudence, whereas Arizona's is not. California requires law enforcement to verify the legal status of the one who may or may not be an immigrant; Arizona requires a person to prove she or he is not an immigrant, or if an immigrant, a legal one. The difference is with whom the responsibility lies: Arizona assumes illegality -- guilt -- which you must disprove if you can; California assumes legality -- innocence -- which the law must disprove if they can (though you are required to cooperate).
Rachel is like many Ivory tower pundants, she promotes the growth of unemployment for real citizens while she rakes in hundreds of thousands if not millions of her own.
Chris Mathews is also a pundant out of touch with America. How can America claim some indignation with pakistan having porous borders and then have american media personalities claim we can not close our own borders?
Deacon Scott, your comparative analysis of California and Arizona law is astute and correct, leaving David Bruner to chew on the gristle of his own idiocy. Kim Kendall, the word is pundit, NOT PUNDANT. Your argumentation skills are sorely lacking. Please, prove Loozerio wrong by providing us with cogent reasons why you believe that Rachel Maddow "promotes the growth of unemployment for real citizens". Loozerio would describe your argumentation style as THROW CRAP AT WALL, SEE WHAT STICKS. Your many words amount to nothing more than intellectually empty diatribe. BBOORRIINNGG.
Loozerio you would be perfect at MSNBC, you just critique and criticize people who share ideas instead putting anything of value on the table. David Bruner...great comparision....Dean Scott good try, but on your last comment you say "California assumes legality -- innocence -- which the law must disprove if they can (though you are required to cooperate)." how exactly does California law enforcement disprove....perhaps ask for some type of ID or check their citizenship.....face it CA and AZ law are one in the same and the same goes for the federal law....The only reason this is being so politicized is that it fits perfectly into the Left's agenda to claim the Right is racist.
Loozerio doesn't have to "put anything on the table", the right-wing lie factory is shooting itself in the foot. The Arizona law enables instant challenge of immigration status without first making an arrest. There is much room for zealotry, and dubious or fabricated probable cause may become epidemic. By the way, Loozerio calls it the way he sees it. Right wing blowhards fill the air with much more than critique and criticism.
Up here we really hope your new health care works out, so we don't have to build a fence.
I'm hoping it works out too. Too many private businesses for me.
There was a congressman on the SF peninsula named Tom Lantos. Congressman Lantos was born in eastern Europe,was a Holocaust survivor, and spoke with a heavy accent.. Twenty years ago congressman Lantos was challenged by a republican that ran on the slogan "vote for Joe Smith (or whatever his name was), He's on of us". I bring this up because I could not help but notice the tag line in John McCain's border commercial , uttered by the sheriff, "you're one of us".
No hypocrisy at all. All police agencies, once they arrest someone for a crime, can call up Immigration. Interestingly, I was on a jury a few years ago. We convicted two gang members of murder. The only one who had the guts to stand up to them was an illegal immigrant. They put her under police protection and then, after she testified -- there were four big men who freaked out and didn't dare -- they granted her a visa.
What this law is about is questioning people for walking around Latino.
Last I checked, being in the country illegally was itself a crime ....
On the charge of being a charlatan, Loozerio finds David Bruner guilty. On the charge of being a JACKASS!, Loozerio finds David Bruner guilty.
Where is the podcast? It's 2am on the east coast and no podcast is up yet... :(
This is about being "ILLEGAL" do not try to divide our country by making this a race issue. If you are in the states illegally then this applies to you! It's funny how some folks think that if you call it racial profiling then it will go away. Arizona is drowning right now due to the large number of illegal immigrants. Yes it is a known fact that the majority of the illegals are Mexican, they BORDER Mexico. Are we to the point in the U.S. now that we need to hide the fact that their chances of finding illegals from Mexico are more likely than finding illegals from China?
Folks, we need to stop the divide. We either take control of the current immigration problem or we just let it take control of our country.
Thank you I completely agree.
It is entirely a race issue. If the number of undocumented immigrants were the same or even greater, but the majority were from Ireland or Poland, nobody would even think there was an "immigration problem."
It is entirely NOT a race issue. Explain to me how this law only targets Hispanics?
Where does it say Hispanics can be stopped for suspicion of being illegal?
The issue with your one sided thought is, it could it ever be and thus you make a point that cannot be proven or dis-proven.
To it though yes they would "think" there is a problem if in fact there was one.
Everyone makes the assumption that we only think there is an immigration problem when in fact there really is one and the facts support that. Can we help that the problem comes from Mexico, yes with this law.
Do you know how we combat illegal immigration from Ireland & Poland and any other country for that matter. We require passports, visas and greencards which by FEDERAL LAW must be carried with you at all times. The difference is there are fewer points of entry into the US from Ireland & Poland.
Also they would be affected by this law in Arizona as well. It does not say "Mexican's" or "Hispanics" it says "Illegal Immigrants".
I listened to a report on NPR yesterday. A Swede was being interviewed. He said although he was in the country legally he was sure that there were many Swedes in the country illegally. Did he think he or any Swedes would be pulled over and questioned under Arizona's new law. "No" he said.
BTW Matt many people from Europe find there way into the US without passports. There is illegal trafficking of people from all over the world into the US. Yet it is those individuals who appear to be Hispanic will be far more likely to be targeted. I say this as woman who is very proud of my Puerto Rican ancestry (my mother was PR). My PR family came over to Puerto Rico* in 1512. I bet much earlier than anyone in you family.
* Incase you didn't know Puerto Rico is part of the US
Maria,
The Swede that was interviewed was wrong. It does not matter what he "thinks" when it comes to being in the country illegally the law applies the same to all.
When you say "There is illegal trafficking of people from all over the world into the US. Yet it is those individuals who appear to be Hispanic will be far more likely to be targeted."
You are correct on the first statement "And" the second. But you need to realize "WHY" If you were to look at the statistics of the situation there is no way that law enforcement will find an equal amount of illegals from various countries.
If you look at the percentages "Which believe me they will take it there to make it seem like Americans are a bunch of racist" there will always be a higher percentage of Hispanics that will get questioned and or deported than any other race. This is not because they are being "Targeted" it is because they are the "Majority" when it comes to illegals in Arizona. And by the way I am from Puerto Rico as well. Born and raised in PR.
SO I am not sure who you were speaking to when you made your post but I tell you. You don't have to make this kind of statement " My PR family came over to Puerto Rico* in 1512. I bet much earlier than anyone in you family." That does not make you "ANY" more American than anybody else.
What's McCain's excuse for not using the REAL sheriff? Has the Rachel show tried to contact ol' McLiar?
Loved the segment. Had me wonderin' if Mr. Estrada would be able to teach English in an AZ school though. I detected an accent. </snark>
If a cop stops me and says, "papers" and I say "scissors" do I win?
to anybody who doesent understand how it feels to brown skinned americans in az right now, imagine if they were cracking down on whatever color YOU are, and the situtation was the same. you could be pulled over just because of the color of your skin.
here is a situation. you are on the way to your kid's baseball game, with a car-full of kids, and you get pulled over by the cops. your kid, along with all the other kids, are late to the game, all because you got pulled over... because of the color of your skin. but dont try to say that to anybody, because you surely will get eyes rolled at you. how would that feel?
or how about this one? you are on a first date, and you are going to watch a movie. the cops pull you over, and you dont have your verification of legal residency on you. you get taken to jail... how does it feel?
would it feel like you are being harassed? what about if it happens two times in one day? how would it feel then?
"oh my, there are lots of cops out today... let me do my mental checklist to make sure i wont get pulled over... registration is up to date? insurance still on? seatbelt? oh wait! maybe i should powder my face with baby powder so i can be more white! maybe THEN they wont pull me over."
absolutely horrible.
You are taking this to a place where it does not need to go. they are not pulling you over because of the color of your skin!
The voice seems to be coming from The Voices ass. Maybe that is because The Voices head is stuck in The Voices ass. Loozerio wonders what planet you are from. Korvis was taking this to a place where it already is, despite The Voices empty protestations.
Your name says it all =) You cant really come up with an intelligent response so all you can do is call people names. Keep up the good work Loozer......io
The Voice wrote that Korvis "was taking this to a place where it does not need to go". WRONG-IT IS ALREADY THERE. People have been, and now will be to a greater extent, profiled/targeted for the color of their skin. brown skin-bad/suspicious/illegal ....white skin-no problem, even if their meth-cookin', gun-totin', murderin' neo-nazis. Korvis was realistic. The Voice was at best naive, at worst knowingly obfuscating.
too funny lol. You yourself are displaying signs of being a racist. You see it does not matter what color your skin is for you to be a racist. a persons immigration status is not determined by the color of their skin but by the way they have entered the country. If you yourself cannot see past that then you my friend are indeed a racist. You call me naive. I already stated on here what people like yourself would do to try to make this a racist issue.
Loozerio wrote People have been, and now will be to a greater extent, profiled/targeted for the color of their skin. brown skin-bad/suspicious/illegal ....white skin-no problem. That statement displays your true colors. I am not White I am Hispanic and I understand the law.
I think you should take your racist remarks elsewhere. Nobody here wants to hear your depiction of Whites as "meth-cookin', gun-totin', murderin' neo-nazis"
There are laws already in the books "Federal by the way" that determine immigration status. Do not hear you crying about those? Unless of course somebody tries to enforce them. You my friend are a "hipocrita"
Loozerio understands that The Voice is an idealist. Ask yourself if immigration status is the only determining factor for you. Please, pull aside the curtain and see the human being behind it, with hopes and dreams that The Voice, being a legal citizen, may have taken for granted. Existence is far more complex than this.
I see the human side of it. I know that there will be a lot of suffering by individuals that are only looking for freedom themselves. But at the same time I have to look at the impact that this is having on our country. Believe me I have not taken my freedom or my legal citizenship for granted. I have served my country honorably. I have seen young men and woman give their lives to protect it. Sir I am very well aware that freedom is not free, we pay for it with the blood of our countries bravest.
I do see the human being behind the curtain. I know it sucks to have to enforce this law. But it must be done in order to protect not only our citizens but them as well.
Loozerio retracts his earlier verbal attack. The Voices latest words have convinced Loozerio of good intent. Loozerio is still greatly troubled by how this issue might unfold if the wrong people gain control of the process. History shows that some people are predisposed to treat others with extraordinary and violent cruelty. May we agree that the process must be closely scrutinized?
Loozerio states "History shows that some people are predisposed to treat others with extraordinary and violent cruelty. May we agree that the process must be closely scrutinized?"
ABSOLUTELY!!
Does anyone else see a correlation with the nationality of our interior secretary and a lack of effort to call for his resignation? The latest effort to stop the oil spill calls for filling the pipe with golf balls and rubber tires. Ken Salazar is another Ron Brown but the media is perhaps reluctant to call for resignation because? He is latino and that is its protected special interest group.
Do you realize that the Gulf oil spill mess is the responsibility of private industry? The oil spill in the Gulf isn't a natural disaster like Katrina which would be the responsibility of the Federal government. It is a man made disaster born of the arrogance, carelessness and total lack responsibility by BP, Deep Horizon and Hailliburtorn.
Ken Salazar's skin color has nothing to do with it.
Kim Kendall- I have a surprise for you. The Secretary you speak of has
Kim K- I have a surprise for you. The Secretary you speak of has the same nationality as all of us. Texas is FULL of Americans named Salizar. You need to get out more often. A person's ethnicity is in no way a guarantee of how they would vote or chose to believe.
That you believe that an AMERICAN citizen should be denied rights afforded all Americans based on their heritage speaks volumes. At least you ARE openly racist. Not many people let that sort of thing become so obvious in their arguments against a US Cabinet member.
Maria
Do you realize the president has the authority to intervene in any crisis man made or natural. This even represents a threat to our shores. You would like to excuse Obama but fact is he has been weak in many areas and the firing of Salazar would be a politically contentious move even though it is apparent he like Ron Brown are inept in office.
well Melinda
Our nation is suffering ill effects of people in positions of authority that are not really capable administrators. Some are allowed to skate without criticism or consequences because they are associated with politically well connected groups. Obama is particularly aware of the the latino lobby. Salazar has not been effective in this crisis but left leaning media has been silent. When you openly float the idea of using golf balls and used tires as a means to block a oil leak contaminating the gulf coast for decades you are getting desperate. The racism being displays is reverse descrimination.
BOYCOTT to make a dent! The last of January and the first two weeks in february in Tucson is when the entire town and area is taken over by International Gem shows. People from all over the world come the the largest shows of the kind in the US. Every hotel room and convention center is used by vendors plus all spaces in parking lots and pool areas are tented with tables and vendors. Every room is booked at rates three times the normal room rates. If the rooms aren't filled by the vendors then they are filled with people coming to the shows and spending money. It is THE event of the year in this country for the jewelry world. There is enough time to get them to move to LA, or San Diego, or Las Vegas, or... anywhere out of AZ! This could be a game changer!
(In actuality they couldn't pull this off without undocumented workers anyway the way it works). The bottom line seems to be i the only thing these republican bigots understand.
Some people are really stupid, ya' know? Of course this Arizona law is racist. Do you think the cops will be stopping us WHITE folks to ask for our papers? If you say yes, you're lying.
None of this stuff matters anyway. The law, the fence. It won't help. I live near the border and the rest of you don't know what's going on. The border needs to be secured - ON THE BORDER. There aren't enough border agents ON THE BORDER. The BP recently built a very expensive HQs building in Tucson - 75 miles NORTH OF THE BORDER. Hundreds of big, gas-guzzling SUVs leave there every day to drive around Arizona - not ON THE BORDER. The Bush Administration had plans to build a multi-million dollar "border" checkpoint in Tubac, AZ - 40 miles NORTH OF THE BORDER (thankfully, this congress has put it on hold) to replace the "temporary" checkpoint already there - which of course the illegals just go around. Duh. Several times a day, the almost empty Wackenhut buses lumber up and down I-19 carrying a few illegals to the Tucson HQs to be processed, housed overnight and then returned the next day to the border. What a waste. Why wasn't this building placed near the border? Bush paid politically-connected Boeing millions to build surveillence cameras in Arivaca, AZ - 45 miles NORTH OF THE BORDER, which don't even work!
If the BP would stop wasting so much money on unnecessary things that don't work and hire lots more agents instead (jobs!) and put them ON THE BORDER it could help. Right now, there are enough agents to place one every quarter mile - if they were actually ON THE BORDER, not driving around southern AZ. Hire more - and put them all ON THE BORDER.
Another problem is AZ businesses don't want the illegals to go back to Mexico. The retirement area I live in literally could not exist without these hard-working people. NPR did an interview (a year or two ago) with an AZ legislator (republican) who has a ranch on the border. He stated he couldn't keep his ranch going without the illegals and, in fact, often brings them in to work on his property. This is the only time you'll ever hear me say this: Bush was right. We need a guest worker program. The workers wouldn't be taken advantage of, they could come and go and they'd pay taxes. Win, win.
We've often seen 20-30 illegals per week heading towards Tucson and Phoenix. None were ever violent or rude. Some politely ask for water or food. One hot summer morning we saw a desperate guy drinking from our bird bath. These people want to work and go to great lengths to get here. The trouble now is there are fewer workers and more drug runners. MORE AGENTS - ON THE BORDER.
Government processing of U.S. Customs and Border Protection applications was on hold from October 2009 until March 2010 because the government ran out of money to continue processing applicants. But retirements continued apace. It can take a year or more to complete the application process, including extensive background checks.
Each class at the Academy for the BP is capped at 50 persons. But not everyone of those 50 will complete the training. A new class begins every week and lasts for 3 months. And then there is another 2 months of intensive language training.
So you can see that it will take a while to get enough agents to effectively patrol the borders.
The Border Patrol is responsible for policing a 25 mile wide strip along each border, in addition of several international ports of entry (including international airports). Once someone gets beyond that 25 miles, they become the concern of ICE.
Deborah,
The Arizona law is not racist. Its sad that you cant see that. The funny thing is in your post you mention a very large amount of reasons for the support of this law =)
I believe this is the same sheriff who had two deputies shot at last week by illegal drug smugglers. My bet is that the rank and file cops are seeing things the sam way as this political ambulance chasing sheriff.
How many people with names like O'Malley and McDonald do you really think are going to be pulled over to ask for them to reach under their kilts for THEIR papers?
I don't think so either. It's about picking on the same Mexicans who have been forced to accept slave wages to artifically keep our wages low. In the 1940s they were brought this country to burn the crops to keep food prices high.
We destroyed their agriculture with NAFTA and provided lucrative drug markets to encourage the growth of the drug cartels that now feed on them and we have the NERVE to target them? We should be ashamed.
Melinda
It is not police's fault illegals are so prevailent in America. Police routinely use descriptions of criminals to canvas the public for suspects. Anyone who is stopped for a traffic infraction is asked for IDENTIFICATION. With 12 to 20 million illegals how easy is it to find one.
If all illegals were shipped back to mexico the US would be at a full employment level. Social security would remain solvent for many more years. There is something to be said for actually being loyal to American citizens.
Melinda --
Your argument would be oh so much stronger if you could find the facts to back up your assertions. Otherwise, it'll be more useful in the garden to help the flowers grow.
Is the sherriff indian or hispanic? I find it disingenuous to have someone of the same ethnic background saying it is bad law. America is experiencing to much divided loyalty. Loyalty to America is a good thing not something to be tagged with a false label of racist.
I like this Sheriff Antonio Estrada. I don't know all the details about this new law but I don't think they should punish these Illinois High School girls for what Politicians do. That just ain't right. With all the hype will all the weirdos and haters across the nation think AZ is the place to be and move here?
Why do we waste our time writing our wee bits, the Rachels, Keiths, Matthews will never stoop so low as to read them thus getting a real taste of what real people think. No we write hoping someday someone will listen, the politicans are too busy taking lobbyists money, tv moderators all have their pre-concieved agendas. Our wee ventings only make us feel momentarily powerful (what a joke).
Why bother writing our vents, Chris, Keith, ED and Racheal don't take the time to actually read us. They have their agendas and sure don't give a damn what Americans REALLY THINK ON IMMIGRATION. Come to AZ where I live and see what the horrible problems we have here with ILLEGALS. Overcrowded schools, overcrowded jails, bankrupted hospitals, higher insurance because of high rates of home robberies and car thefts. Oh yes you all sit there calling us racists, all the while we pass a reasonalble law to stop people AFTER THEY HAVE POSSIBLY COMMITED A CRIME, NOT BEFORE. I have been in nine different countries and every time we had to have our passport on our person. We were guests, here these illegals have already broken the law, they are not guests, they are ciminals.
As a Brit and Americanophile (is there such a word?) I sometimes wonder where I would like to live if I moved to the US. Up until now Phoenix was fairly high on the list.
I here all the ways the proponents of papers please claim they could identify alleged illegal immigrants without resorting to 'does their face look Mexican' yet I somehow doubt that, if I were house hunting in Arizona and satisfied their various criteria, I, with my blue eyes and pasty face, would be required to prove that I was there legally despite being a foreigner.
Oh well, maybe Colorado or Oregon are better options.
Sorry I'm late posting this, but does the below sound familiar (Replace runaway slave with illegal alien):
In 1850 Congress passed the Fugitive Slave Law. In future, any federal marshal who did not arrest an alleged runaway slave could be fined $1,000. People suspected of being a runaway slave could be arrested without warrant and turned over to a claimant on nothing more than his sworn testimony of ownership.
If you haven't seen the move" A Day Without A Mexican " try and get a copy of it and watch it. It really sends a message. Someone should send a copy to that Gov of AZ